Hello and welcome to Fit for Duty, your regular dose of corporate health and wellness insight, brought to you by Aetna International. I’m Lorien Norden, Global Thought Leadership Strategist, and today I’m in conversation with Bradley Honnor, Founder and Managing Director of MatchFit and also Adele Mackenzie-Smith, Senior HR Leader for Aetna International. We’re going to be discussing some of the ways organisations are having to adapt their strategies to ensure they’re on the winning side in today’s war for talent.
There’s no denying that today organisations need to have a distinct competitive advantage when it comes to attracting and retaining talent. Not only do business owners, senior leaders and HR teams need to manage the nuances of the new hybrid working environment, but workers are also putting them under increasing pressure. They expect their employers to live and breathe their purpose; to develop collaborative, diverse, inclusive cultures, to leverage new technologies and to help their people manage their health, wellbeing and career development. We’ll be covering all this and more today and we hope you enjoy the episode.
[[01.06]]
L: So hello Adele and Bradley.
[hellos back]
L: Hi, it’s great to have you both here. Could I ask you both to give a bit more background into what it is that you do within your respective organisations and what has led you to be here as part of this conversation today?
[[01.28]]
B: Yes, so I’m MD of Match Fit, which is an organisation that focuses primarily on driving high performance, but with a key focus on wellbeing, so the concept is that the better someone feels at work. the more engaged they are, the more motivated they are and the healthier they feel. The by-product of that is high performance so really think about well-being at the centre of everything in terms of our methodology and that’s the key focus of what we’re doing and I guess that’s what brought me here today, thinking about how that wellbeing and culture and how they connect with individuals and how they feel at work. So that’s pretty much why I’m here, Lorien.
[[02.08]]
L: Perfect, and the same question to you please, Adele.
A: Thanks. So I’m a Senior HR Business Partner here at Aetna International and I’ve been with the organisation about 3 and a half years. In the last 18 months to two years or so, I’ve been really working on the response to COVID, so the COVID BCP and how that relates to our employees, so from an employee point of view. And also starting to think about our organisational culture, what does that look like today, what is that going to look like in the future and how do we translate that for our employees and combining that with our wellbeing strategy and diversity and inclusion initiatives as well. So that’s really what’s brought me here today to have some of this conversation.
[[02.59]]
L: Perfect, excellent. And just for the benefit of those listening, BCP is Business Continuity Planning.
As you said, really looking at the influence of COVID and the employee/employer relationship, and making sure that teams are catered for, individuals are looked after and the organisation has a strong way forward, I wanted to start our conversation today by talking a little bit about the ‘Great Resignation’. A recent survey from Microsoft found that over 40% of workers are considering leaving their jobs this year and, for example, applications to law and medical school are up by 20% and 18% respectively. So, it would seem to me that expectations people have around what makes a good job? What do I want from my employer? Is this what I want out of my life? All that has changed. The pandemic has really brought us to question a lot of what’s happening in and around our lives, but from an employer’s perspective, the cost of replacing an employee can be around twice their annual salary so this shift in mindsets and behaviours has to be keeping certain business leaders awake at night. So I really want to start by looking at the roles of corporate culture and management on that, sort of, changing employee/employer relationship, specifically perceptions around wellbeing and loyalty. Now, culture itself is a little bit of a woolly, nebulous term, so I’d like to ask you first Adele, what is it that we mean when we talk about culture and organisations’ culture and maybe you could give us a couple of examples, please?
[[04.47]]
A: Sure, so like you said I think there’s an awful lot of theory around organisational culture but really what it is, it’s about values, expectations and practices within an organisation and I think it really defines what those expected behaviours and norms are that you would expect to see and be demonstrated within an organisation. And that’s both internally and externally, and that can be in the forms of what you see physically as you enter a building, the type of awards that an organisation has won or has been receiving. It can even be its dress codes or leadership practices and that can even be about the written or perceived values of an organisation. There isn’t a complete list of corporate cultures, but there are four styles really defined by Kim Cameron and Robert Quinn from the University of Michigan and they’re some of the most popular.
The first one is about a clan culture, and that’s the culture that’s really rooted in collaboration where employees share commonalities and they see themselves as part of one big family.
The second area of culture they have identified and defined is adhocracy and that’s a culture based on energy and creativity. So the likes of Facebook is a really good example where their core values are based on change and agility.
The third culture they identified was hierarchy and that’s founded on structure and control, so if you think about somebody like McDonald’s where they are really founded around consistency and uniformity, so even though they have outsourced some of their organisation, everything is about having that same practice to deliver.
And then the fourth area that they identified was a market culture, based on energy and creativity. So GE under the leadership of Jack Welch was a really good example of that, where he vowed that every GE business had to rank first or second in its respective market or face being sold off. Those are the key areas of culture and really how they play out in an organisation. Bradley, I don’t know whether there’s anything you had any thoughts on?
[[07.12]]
B: Yeah, sure I agree with lots of what you’re saying there Adele, and I know that when we’re working with our clients, certainly, you were saying about the aspects of how you might identify or define a culture. But those characteristics are very prevalent and it’s less theoretical on the ground for people when they’re thinking about their own culture. Very often it’s more about how they’re feeling part of something bigger than themselves, so really feeling connected to something that is beyond themselves as an individual and feeling part or connected to that team or the organisation and feeling valued by that organisation connects them to that culture and this is what we hear through the analysis/consulting work we are doing. And people want to feel that they have some responsibility and can take a part in the evolution of that culture too. And these are the sort of things we feel help an individual to find a culture, so people will talk to us around their culture is high-pressured or it’s really time-bound or there’s lots of deadlines or time goals and it’s all about outputs, or that there is a high workload or there is a real expectation of the speed that people respond and how quickly they react to requests. And that’s the type of language we hear, you know it’s a very task-focused culture here, very hierarchical and people describe, for example, can they push back or they can’t say no, that type of thing. And I think that’s how, in our experience, how individuals sort of perceive their culture, how they start to define their culture is those behavioural aspects you’ve outlined.
[[08.51]]
L: Yes, absolutely and I think just picking up on what you’ve said there about human connectedness, we’re all looking for that feeling of belonging, that our opinions matter and that we feel cared about and there’s no doubt that all of that, that company culture attracts talent. So, with that in mind, Adele, first of all, I wanted to ask you about a culture of wellbeing, so we’ve heard this term bandied about a lot over the last 5-10 years, but I wanted to ask you specifically, what does a culture of wellbeing mean to you and where does it sit today within Aetna International in terms of priorities?
[[09.27]]
A: Yeah, sure. So for me, a culture of wellbeing is really about building that working environment that encourages and promotes the wellbeing of all of our employees. And it’s about thinking of ways for employees to be healthier at work and then helping them to create those healthy habits that are beneficial, not only from a professional point of view but from a personal point of view and that might be things like emotional wellbeing or it could be things like physical health, financial wellbeing, you know you talked about social connectedness, it’s about how do we develop that right culture within an organisation at an appropriate level and when you talk about where does that fit within Aetna International’s priorities, we certainly it as way up there in terms of the organisation and the culture that we want to build. And I think it’s something we’ve had some very positive feedback about over the past 18 months to two years, as we’ve gone through BCP from a COVID point of view I think it’s become more important and prevalent as a conversation, not only in our organisation but externally as well.
[[10.35]]
L: Hm, absolutely. And Bradley what does a culture of wellbeing mean to you in terms of what you have encountered within Match Fit?
B: Again, I think it’s interesting to look at what that means to people. We do a lot of analysis work and what we hear and get from people are those really basic things actually, so it’s a strong well-being culture if people feel that people are just speaking to each other in a way that is appropriate and in a professional manner and people don’t have their heads bitten off if they raise their heads above the parapet or if they want to challenge their leadership. We hear words like inclusivity and fairness, again really simple human aspects of what leadership and management can take control of in terms of developing a culture of wellbeing. So it really is about that balance and understanding that we are more than just our jobs. We’re more than just a role that we fulfil and I think that’s an increasingly important aspect to people at work.
[[11.48]]
L: Yeah absolutely. You both mentioned physical, mental, financial wellbeing as well and it’s about giving employees the tools that they need to manage and improve those areas of their health and wellness as much as it is about creating the right environment, isn’t it? And then from an environment perspective, we’ve probably all heard the cliched saying that people don’t leave bad jobs, they don’t leave jobs, they leave bad managers. So a manager’s ability to nurture and support and motivate can really make or break a team and managers, in turn, are influenced by company culture. So I really wanted to, with that in mind, talk about the organisations’ cultural and management style and how that influences employee wellbeing and does that ring true with corporate leadership today, Bradley? And how much of the changing employee/employer relationship has to do with people feeling heard and valued?
[[12.54]]
B: Yes, well In fact often some of these questions are quite deep and in-depth aren’t they but for me certainly for me the first part - is wellbeing and loyalty... does that ring true in terms of how people are led today? And the answer to that is yes. A resounding yes. An undefended yes. It’s that simple. I think that employers have a really big responsibility in creating a culture of wellbeing in driving a culture where people feel comfortable and engaged in and it is, again, it’s often those small things that make such a difference. It’s those small things that make people feel valued and if we feel valued we’re engaged, and if we’re engaged we want to stay and if we want to stay we want to get involved and all of these things. Again, it’s the very, very simple things that people need to feel that they are able to make a difference, that they have some autonomy, that they have some choice in what they’re doing, that they have an opportunity to grow, they have some flexibility, that they are not rigidly at work but have some flexibility about how they’re working and they get the balance of work and life, and that the feedback they get from their leadership and management is balanced. And it’s that type of thing, I think, if you look at the simplicity of creating and doing those things, they’re what we call micro-behaviours in many ways, and it’s really not rocket science and what we find in the work that we do is as we’re able to encourage managers and leaders to start to think about these behaviours and these types of focus, change can take place very quickly within the culture, and it really isn’t rocket science but it’s sometimes not what all leadership and management focus on, so…
[[14.35]]
L: Absolutely. I think you hit the nail on the head there in terms of people who feel happy, they feel a sense of job satisfaction, they feel appreciated are far more likely to stick with their role and to grow within an organisation and to help grow the business itself. To work on the business, not just in it. But I think a lot of these push-pull or attract-repel levers, in terms of how we think about an organisation, these have really been under a microscope recently and as we mentioned earlier, a lot of people have really been questioning their circumstances and no one is going to up sticks and necessarily resign from their job when there’s so much uncertainty in the world but you know there’s still a large degree of uncertainty, but it seems that the Great Resignation has begun and I really wanted to ask, Bradley, what’s your view on the Great Resignation that’s sweeping the world. Is it a threat or is it an opportunity for organisations to really evaluate their policies, to make room for clearer communications around corporate purpose and helping employees find meaning in their contribution and things like that?
[[15.54]]
B: Yes, thanks. Aren’t people great? I think what this is showing is that people are voting with their feet and I think it’s a reflection of people re-evaluating how they’re working and living. And I think that COVID, more than anything in the whole of my lifetime, has been the existential event that makes people really take a step back and I think that’s what’s going on. I don’t want to do that commute anymore, I don’t want to have a boring job anymore, I don’t want to work in a culture like that anymore. I’ve got one life and it’s now.
So I think it’s a real opportunity for both employees, I would encourage anyone in terms of their own performance and well-being to take that step back and that’s a good indicator that sometimes we need an existential event to start to think in that way, but there’s a real opportunity for employees but there’s also an opportunity for employers and it’s really about them taking the opportunity to put people first, to really put wellbeing at the centre of all that they do and what we’re seeing in organisations trying to do that is that employees are responding and it does hit engagement figures, it does hit even things like the amount of grievances that might be going on with any organisation at any given time.
Happier people stay and happy people want to go to their role. So I think it’s an opportunity for employers to really reevaluate how they’re operating and the cultures they’re trying to generate. And I think people do want something different now and I think if employers don’t respond they will rue the day.
[[17:43]]
A: I’m in complete agreement. I think it is a fantastic opportunity for both employees and employers. I think we’re likely to see, though, employers feel a level of threat in the short term, particularly those organisations that haven’t thought through what is their future culture and working model. What is that going to look like? How are we going to define and structure ourselves? Some companies I think are going to struggle to keep pace with the level of change they are starting to see as the markets are opening now as they are in the US but I think that’s where us as employers have got to turn that on its head and work more quickly to defining what do we want to be? Where do we want to go?
[[18.31]]
L: Absolutely. And you mentioned there about having to move and adapt quickly and I think we’ve all had to, whether employer or employee, we’ve all had to learn how to be agile and we’ve all learnt new skills and new ways of working, you know how to build communities and networks and friendships and just all of these things we’ve been faced with in terms of ever-changing dynamics in our day to day and that’s so true for HR leads and their teams, isn’t it?
So, Adele, looking at this from a deeper HR perspective, I wanted to ask you specifically around job titles such as Chief People Officers, Chief Remote Work Officers and HR professionals, they’re in greater demand but also under greater pressure than ever. So I just wanted to ask for your views on that and where you see HR as a function moving in the future?
[[19.25]]
A: Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So the last 18 months have been like no other for HR professionals. I think everybody would be supportive of that! I think we’ve had to digest and understand new legislation, how do we make workplaces COVID-safe? How do we deal with sensitive issues such as things like furlough schemes and we’ve really had to focus our attention on how we ensure that business results continue to be delivered whilst continuing to engage our colleagues as well. So, in many organisations that certainly hasn’t been easy but I think along the way businesses have really been forced to make a lot of tough decisions and implement a lot of changes in the immediate term and throughout all of that uncertainty, leadership teams and employees have really looked to their HR teams for the answers. So, I don’t think the HR profession has ever been more visible or as vital to the rest of the business than it has been over the past 18 months to 2 years. But I think we’re now moving out of that initial crisis mode in response to the pandemic and having everybody work from home and being effective, businesses are now looking to establish what are their new normals and I think that’s about to bring more change, particularly in the form of hybrid working arrangements, so developing new ways of working, what are our routines and how do we continue to ensure collaboration and engagement and then how do we retain our employees, like you’ve identified earlier, and also how do we continue to attract talent into our organisations. And I think HR leaders are really playing a key role in shaping what that new normal is looking like and leaders expect their HR colleagues to be firmly sitting at the table and having a view and input into that conversation, whilst ensuring that they are continuing to run the HR function.
But my personal view is that while we’re doing all of this as HR professionals, we need to remain strong advocates for employee wellbeing and ensure that happy, healthy and productive workforces are really at the centre of our business strategy and we continue to evolve and shape that culture, because I think that’s what will see us through but it’s certainly been a challenging 18 months and I think certainly for at least the next 12 months will continue to grow like that I think.
[[22.00]]
L: That was so well said and no pressure then, Adele, hey?!! [all laugh]. I wanted to talk to you about... to come back to the focus around wellness, and a well-designed wellness programme is a big differentiator for many organisations. We have talked a little bit about attracting and retaining top talent and top candidates and it really can mean the difference between that top talent being engaged and committed and happy and productive with you or heading off to a competitor. Of course, there are lots of other factors at play here as well, but how have employer talent attraction retention strategies changed recently, Adele? And what key skills are needed by organisations today as far as that focus is concerned?
[[22.48]]
A: Yeah, so we know that employees now expect flexible working options and want to be part of diverse teams. And they want to be given the opportunity to learn and grow and be aligned with an organisation’s purpose and culture. A strong company culture is going to attract candidates, the right candidates for the job and help keep employees engaged and when we have a look at some of the external surveys, a recent Glass Door study said that 77% of adults would evaluate a company’s culture before applying for an open position and 56% rank an organisation’s company culture as more important than compensation. So I think we do have to really think about how are we attracting and retaining employees and with that in mind organisations have really started to review their culture and working environment as I said earlier to make sure that we do attract and retain them as that war for talent really does intensify. And I think many organisations now are really having a look at that now that those employee expectations are changing and they are looking for those flexible working arrangements and their benefit strategies and development opportunities that might be available to those employees to make sure they can grow from within an organisation.
L: Hm, there’s so much for business leaders and strategists to take on board and consider in that case. Bradley just from your perspective of thinking with your experience how do organisations evaluate where they are now and decide where to invest their time and money in terms of improving their culture, engaging with employees and looking at adapting their workplace policies? Where do they start?
[[24.37]]
B: Yeah, it’s a good question, isn’t it and it does sound like a complicated question or a challenging question in many ways. So we work with what we call a phenomenological approach which is really about starting with the individual team and just asking. And it sounds like such a simple thing. I can reflect this back in all honesty that working with lots of organisations sometimes they’re asking the questions but not always listening in terms then doing something about those responses from their employees, so culture surveys would be a good example.
Sometimes things are acted on and sometimes they aren’t. I’m sure you will have both heard many times people saying that we give our feedback but nobody really does anything with it or nobody really listens to what we’re saying we’ve been saying this for a long time. And those kinds of comments would be being made in the same type of organisations where they’re saying well we do ask and we do listen. So I think it’s really about challenging ourselves as leaders and as an organisation generally to say are we really asking and are we really hearing and not be defensive about the things that we haven’t been able to do or that we haven’t already done or acted upon. And really be seen to be responsive, and I think that’s really important. If you think about how to build engagement and build inclusivity and to be considering diversity and all of those things, to really respond to how people are engaging in the process and to almost (there’s got to be some guidelines), almost allow them to lead that and that’s the phenomenological aspect, not to go in with preconceived ideas of what might be wrong within the culture, but to really start to unpick at an individual’s level what it’s like to be there doing that job right now and so that approach in itself is very innovative so we would encourage that - be innovative. Work in a different way. Be more inclusive. What we also see coming through as really, really important is very often things are being done and leadership are doing things and working behind the scenes but it’s not always communicated in a way that people can see or understand that, so that they feel that things aren’t necessarily being acted upon.
And I think lastly being relentless, you know, if you really want to decide on the culture that we want and engage employees and really make a shift and change things, we need to not lose the will, we need to be relentless and really keep going and really drive and really lead it until that change has taken place and it’s an ongoing thing. And it’s an ongoing thing, it’s a journey, not a destination.
[[27.25]]
L: Yeah, absolutely I think tenacity is key and, as you said, it’s communication, communication, communication! I mean, clear communication about work models and the organisation’s position, purpose, we hear you this is what we’ve done, as you say, in a way that is clear and people can understand, it’s so important for engaging employees today.
The conversation with Bradley Honnor and Adele Mackenzie-Smith continues in Episode 16: “The War for Talent, Part Two”. In Part Two we continue to explore the role of communications, a culture of openness and wellbeing and employee engagement. We hope you’ve enjoyed the discussion so far and we’ll see you in Part Two.
