Fit for Duty Podcast: Episode 16.

L: Welcome to Part Two of the Fit for Duty podcast conversation about the ‘War for Talent’ that’s impacting global organisations in the wake of the pandemic. Fit for Duty is brought to you by Aetna International. I’m Lorien Norden. Join me as I resume the conversation with Adele Mackenzie-Smith, Senior HR Leader at Aetna International and Bradley Honnor, Founder of MatchFit. In this episode we continue to delve into the way in which organisations are having to adapt their culture, policies and benefits to ensure they’re retaining and attracting talent in a continued period of change. At the end of Episode 15 - Part One in the War for Talent - we were discussing the role of communications and employee engagement… let’s dive back in.

[[00.50]]

L: So, following on from that piece there about communication and tenacity, I think that in terms of engaging employees… engaged employees are at the heart of every successful company and we know that there are so many things to consider: how to help people feel connected and valued; that they’re in a safe space; that they can, as you mentioned earlier Bradley, raise their head above the parapet, have an opinion and not feel that they’re going to be shot down; and that they understand their role and also how they are contributing to the organisation’s direction and purpose. So, how are organisations adapting their workplace policies, Bradley, to support employee wellbeing, you know, just thinking about things like work-life balance and social connectedness, mental and physical health, their job satisfaction. What are the things that are at play in terms of the organisations that you work with?

[[01.47]]

B: Yeah, so I can tell you bit about what we see on the ground. Obviously with COVID, that’s really hit where people work and so that’s really driven a work from home (WFH) policy across many organisations and what that might look like, and that has been a good and bad thing. You know, for some that’s been something that they’ve found very good in terms of not commuting anymore or they have the freedom to work the hours they’d like to rather than office hours, but not everyone has that type of environment where they feel it’s conducive to work at home or they feel they are in types of roles where they need to be in, and we’ve even seen in some organisations managers that are able to work from home but the staff are told that they need to go into the office.

So I think it depends how you apply that type of thing, but when the WFH policy is applied in a way that people are engaged with it, I think that’s been a real change in the way that organisations have adapted the way that they’re working for that work-life balance for their employees. We also hear a lot about how work is distributed, so that’s sometimes around the performance management side of things, so lots of organisations we’re working with now are looking at underperformance; in a way to allow that to continue it’s actually unfair to the people that are really doing the work and working hard and what we see prior to that cultural shift was the people that were working hard almost got more work, so it’s almost like the harder you work the more work you got. So, performance is becoming, not focus, but it is something that is being looked at in a different way and expectations around that performance, and again that’s done sometimes in a way that’s really good and effective and other ways not so good. It’s difficult to name any particular clients for obvious reasons, but within both public and private sector we’re seeing performance management really impacting on that balance for teams and the wider organisation. And then you’ve got the more social events and people putting on things for mind, body and soul, if you like. And I think for me one of the key drivers of getting this right is ensuring that people feel that they can take the time to do these things. And we’ve seen in lots of organisations where there’s lots of mindfulness available, lots of wellbeing agendas available to really build that connectedness across the organization, really start to think about our mental health and wellbeing, but there’s no time to do it because we’re all so busy, rushed off our feet and overloaded with work. So, for me that’s the key caveat, it’s not just about setting up a programme and having things available, it’s about instilling a culture where we feel able to take the time to actually connect with that.

[[04.41]]

L: Yeah, absolutely it’s about giving people permission to build in time to do that, to have that time as you say to focus on mind, body and soul, or focus on career development and upskilling. And again, I think that comes back to communication, doesn’t it? And leading from the top down. So, Adele, I was wondering from where you sit, how have employee engagement and communication strategies changed recently in terms of the channels that are in use or the tone and style of communications and also the frequency. That’s the first part and then has employee engagement and participation changed in response?

[[05.22]]

A: Yeah, so Bradley touched on this just earlier, I think many employers have now recognised the need to create that culture of openness and communications where employees feel comfortable approaching their managers with concerns about their work life, their wellbeing and some of their stress issues as well. And I think equally employers have been looking at how they can upskill their leaders as well to make sure that they feel comfortable and empowered to be able to help an employee address some of their concerns. So, it’s not necessarily solving it for them, but it’s about pointing people in the right direction and having that open conversation as well.

I think we’ve certainly changed our communication style and approach and became much more personable in our communications, that’s really reflected the environment we’ve been in for the past two years. So, we’ve really had to change and adapt as that external environment changed as well and we noticed really at the beginning of the pandemic that our communications were very frequent and that was a direct result of the rapidly evolving situation that we had across the globe and ensuring that we were keeping employees up to date, as you said earlier, listening to feedback and really guiding us on the issues that were important to our employees. And I think many organisations have really done the same. There was a recent report from McKinzie that stated that in a survey they found that those who say their organisations responded particularly well to the pandemic were four times more likely to be engaged and six times more likely to report a positive state of wellbeing. I think more recently we’re finding that employees are looking for focused communications. Their expectation has changed as we’re moving out of that immediate need and I think they’re seeking less frequent group calls and communications, it’s got to be much more focused or structured. But I think it’s likely to continue to be this evolving state that we need, as employers, to continue listening to, and I think that’s going to be different depending on the type of organisation you are. Global organisations, they’re going to have to consider, from pandemic point of view, where they are. Some countries are now starting to come out and thinking about returning to office strategies, whilst others are still in a state of lockdown. So I think it’s important for organisations to really recognise those differences but ensure that there’s ongoing communication channels that are open at a global and a local level.

[[08.06]]

L: Well, I think one of the things you mentioned there particularly, Adele, around how people are seeking potentially less frequent communications now and that they need to be really focused. So, if you’ll bear with me, I just want to drill down a little bit more into communications content if you like, now compared to pre-pandemic. So, I was wondering what percentage of corporate communications from an Aetna perspective, for example, pertain to wellbeing today vs pre-pandemic. So that’s the first part, and then also where else is the company focusing its energy? For example, is it workplace polices around Covid-19 and work locality, I’m sure that’s a given. Or is it work-related health and wellbeing practices that cater to posture, musculoskeletal conditions or burnout. Is it whole-person health? Where is the balance do you find at the moment, Adele?

[[09.07]]

A: To your first question, around that focus on employee wellbeing communications, I don’t think I could give you a percentage, but I think it has dramatically increased in terms of how often and how frequent employers are now talking about that to their employees. I think there has been a dramatic increase in those type of communications and a focus on the wellbeing options that are available. We actually saw really strong employee engagement results over the last two years, but I think employee engagement for many organisations has generally been impacted during that time and it’s going to vary greatly, I think, depending on the market and industry in which you as an employer operate. And because of that I’m sure that every organisation has a slightly different focus for their communications. I think for some the focus has been on downsizing or reshaping of their business models and then others have experienced significant periods of growth during that time. But I think in all of those cases, many organisations are recognising the importance of ensuring that their employees are feeling supported as they go through that significant period of change, whatever that change is. And corporate communications have significantly increased the focus on employee wellbeing. I think at the beginning of the pandemic many organisations focused on how to find help and support, but I think now there’s been a significant shift towards how do we continue to ensure that employees remain actively engaged and well at work as well. So I think that, like you said, can be in the form of ensuring you’ve got health and safety practices or assessments in place to ensure that people might have correct seating postures whilst working at home or it can be communicating programmes that might be available to support employees from an emotional well-being point of view, particularly as many still struggle with that work-life balance and with that constantly changing external environment as well. But I think we’re now going through that further period of change where we’re all struggling to understand how do we build that social connectedness. How do we build that collaboration in the workplace, particularly while we’re continuing with this work at home or hybrid working environment, but I think ensuring we’ve got a constantly evolving employee communication strategy that’s aligned with feedback from employees, like we talked about earlier, I think that’s going to be key to ensuring that we continue to engage and take our employees on a journey with us, as employers.

[[11.58]]

L: Yeah, and in terms a journey, everybody is on a different journey, and everybody is going through such a unique experience in response to the pandemic and we all have our own unique health and wellbeing needs as it is…. So, I was wondering, Adele, from an employee engagement perspective, when it comes to things like health benefits and wellness services and solutions, have you found that there’s been greater interest and engagement by employees in the support and the services that are available to them? And have you noticed any concerns over confidentiality and health-related stigma? I was just wondering if you could give us a little more detail there as well?

[[12.44]]

A: Sure. I don’t think there’s any doubt that when employees feel supported at work then you see greater levels of engagement and productivity, it’s certainly something we’ve seen as we drove a deeper focus on wellbeing provisions for our employees. But I firmly believe that if you’ve truly adopted that culture, focused on solid lines of communication, where everyone feels comfortable having an open conversation and there’s a passion for enabling wellbeing in a work environment, then I think those concerns over health-related stigma, confidentiality and data privacy shouldn’t be a significant concern for employees but I think, in some organisations, employees don’t fully understand the health benefits that are available to them, how they can be accessed and what they’re designed for, and I think that’s where concerns arise over the intention behind the benefits and what they believe an employer might do with that information. But I think it’s a responsibility for us as employers to communicate the benefits that we offer and how they can enhance the overall health and wellbeing of our workforce, but it’s also important that we make employees aware of the professional standards that each of those benefits providers abide by; so, things like our EAP provisions, our medical insurance. None of that information is provided to us as employers as personally identifiable information, it’s never shared with us. Those services really are there to provide support to our employees through the various stages of their life, really to make sure that they’re effective in the workplace and at home as well and I think that’s what we’ve got to be very clear about as employers. 

[[14.32]]

L: Hm, again yes i think that’s so well said, absolutely. At this point I really wanted to talk a little bit about how in the healthcare industry, certainly, there’s been a shift away from fee-for-service care to value-based care, for example providers are focused on patients’ health outcomes and keeping them well and they’re compensated accordingly, rather than just focusing on treating people when they’re sick. So, I’m wondering is it time for a similar shift in management style in terms of productivity measures and performance management away from employee output with potentially declining wellbeing to focus on outcome and impact and innovation. So, Adele, I was wondering if you have any thoughts on that at all?

[[15.24]]

A: Yeah, I think that’s going to be really difficult because each organisation and role is going to differ, so I don’t think there’s necessarily a one size fits all because I think the nature of some roles requires employees to be managed on output and productivity mechanisms that can be measured. But I think employers need now to build on the trust that they’ve earned over the last 18 months and continue to be actively engaged, empathetic and transparent on an individual level when it comes to agreeing what those expected outputs are.

I think forward-thinking organisations are focusing on how they close the gap and look to design experiences that kind of give their employees the space to unlock their potential and deliver those innovative results. And you mentioned earlier, Lorien, you know people being on the same journey but in different boats. I think we’re all experiencing the pandemic but we have to recognise every employee isn’t experiencing the same thing, nor are they all equipped in the same way to deal with it and that means we need to have a variety of approaches or tools available to us as managers to address those employee concerns and issues relating to their wellbeing, productivity, development and we need to carefully listen at an individual level to ensure that the appropriate support mechanisms are available and we can point people in the right direction.

[[16.50]]

B: The individual level is so important and that’s also the challenge across an organisation if you have lots and lots of people, you know, how do you engage in that individual level but actually, if you look at that example given there, that we’re all experiencing the pandemic, but we’re all experiencing it differently and we’ve got different tools to cope with it. That’s how and why it needs to be at individual level. And remark about confidentiality earlier really resonated because that really holds people back in the work that we’re doing if they’re not convinced it’s going to be confidential, so important pieces of information there to just pick up on.

[[17.30]]

L: If anything, we’ve really seen over the last 18 months to two years, how much more segmented the needs of organisations’ populations are. From a demographic perspective, for example, Aetna International’s recent research showed that younger workers (18-25) really struggled emotionally and professionally while working from home and that people who are in an office environment have very different health and wellbeing concerns and needs to those working from home or to those juggling both. So, what you said earlier about one size fits all completely resonates with me as well, Adele and I was sort of thinking about how companies can better understand all the demographics and different needs that are at play within an organisation today and how to better cater to those disparate healthcare needs and I wonder what your thoughts are on that please and absolutely feel free to jump in Bradley, if I keep talking!

[[18.37]]

A: So I think we’re now operating in the most diverse and multigenerational workforce we’ve ever seen and I think that’s fantastic for innovation, learning and mentoring opportunities and it really expands our pool of available talent and it provides us with multiple opportunities as employers, but there’s obviously a lot of obstacles that we need to learn to manoeuvre as we look at that and move forward. I think we need to think about our employee value proposition and whether it really does appeal to the spectrum of employees that we want to see represented in our organisations and I think the key is offering a sought-after working environment and an assortment of benefits really to satisfy that variety of people. And I think as a result, companies really need to review their health care and wellbeing benefits to ensure they’re really attracting and retaining that diverse population. I think they need to understand their own demographics in the organisation, we talked about it earlier, but listening to the voice of their employees but also increasing knowledge of maybe, I don’t know, the healthcare issues that might occur in various employee groups. And I think as employers we can then discuss that with our benefits providers and ensure that the appropriate provisions are in place and that there’s support available wherever practically possible, depending on what it is we’re looking to achieve.

[[20.07]]

L: Absolutely and just again thinking about the different needs of different populations within holistic organisations’ population. So the younger generations today, you know, we’ve touched on potentially different wellbeing and health needs. We know that they’re far more fuelled by that sense of shared purpose that we spoke about earlier. And also, consumers of all ages expect organisations to manage their impact on the wider world considerately and deliberately as well, you know how am I impacting the environment? How am I impacting other people? How am I impacting my employees? So, I wanted to ask you, Bradley, from a culture and purpose perspective, how do they influence one another?

[[20.54]]

B: That’s an interesting question. What we find during our work with organisations is people tend to see that sense of purpose in two different ways, which is very binary, but that’s what comes across. So, it’s either the organisational purpose or the individual purpose, so I think it’s important to look at those two things. Organisational purpose can certainly drive the culture, so if an organisation’s purpose is to make as much money as possible, being crude, then that’s going to drive certain behaviours. If an organisation’s purpose is to provide the best customer service and best place to work, that’s going to drive a different type of behaviour. So, organisational purpose can certainly drive a culture, but that said, individual purpose can change a culture and I think that’s a real message there for leadership. It takes a really strong leader to go into a culture and change the culture, you know, a lot of people go into a culture and get absorbed by it and become the culture. So that individual purpose can really change culture and I always think of someone like Nelson Mandela when I think about that and the unbelievable and immense change within the world that was generated from that one man’s purpose.

So, it’s not so much about which came first really for me, it’s more about the influencing aspects of both. If we’re really smart, we need to never lose sight of the power of that individual purpose and imagine an organisation where we have a bunch of individuals all with an individual purpose, all moving in the same direction, all driven, all really motivated, all really committed to that same sense of purpose. So, if we can align organisational and individual purpose, then we can really drive the culture that we want and that’s certainly what we’re seeing in the work we’re doing. I’m going back to Adele’s point again; the individual is what will drive that organisational culture in the end or it’s the individual that will fight that organisation culture. And that’s how I see that question really…

[[23.09]]

A: Yeah, I agree and I think that’s got to be that constantly evolving discussion, hasn’t it, I think there’s got to be that constant dialogue, while we look at the voice of the customer, our colleagues, and I think we’ve got to constantly challenge ourselves to make sure are we driving in the right direction, have we defined what that looks like and how we behave and are we in agreement with that? I don’t think that can be done in a vacuum.

B: No. Absolutely.

L: And you were saying about how individuals can influence an organisation and really I think if you also derive an immense amount of job satisfaction from what it is you’re doing, that can not only influence those around you, it obviously massively influences your own wellbeing and as I said can influence those around you and the wider culture, so I think, you know, in terms of employers’ priorities, Adele, as far as employee job satisfaction and the training and development that goes in behind that and the community involvement, building that sense of community, building that sense of purpose, how do they all interplay within an organisation and where are organisations focusing their efforts at the moment?

[[24.28]]

A: Yeah, so I think as employers we’re really seeing more people report being highly stressed in both the virtual and hybrid workplace and I think the time in virtual meetings has increased and working hours have got longer which I think for some has created a form of burnout. And I think some of us have found a work-life balance, but not everybody’s used to being at home and working in the same environment, not everybody finds that enjoyable nor is everybody balancing the demands of their home-work environment at all. So I think it’s undoubtedly impacted employee engagement, morale and our own personal wellbeing as well.

There was a recent study in the BMJ and that found that job satisfaction levels were an important factor and influence in the health of workers and there’s growing evidence that current trends and employment conditions could be eroding levels of job satisfaction and directly damaging the physical and mental health of our employees. But I think, depending on the industry that you’re in, the range of options and financial support that might be available to you as an employer, it is going to differ and it’s going to impact your priorities and how you prioritise them but, for me, Bradley was talking about it just earlier, but it’s got to start with that clear purpose and strategy. So where is your North Star, and then have everything aligned to that. You can’t really get true job satisfaction if employees aren’t aligned with that purpose and without strong and aligned communications and support from leaders and managers you just can’t get or enable that job satisfaction and then I think training and development have got to be aligned to the individual and the direction of the business, it’s got to be a mixture of the two. But I think organisations now need to carefully consider what their future strategy is and what base level skills are going to be needed in order to develop it further. Is that further levels of resilience or change management or communication skills? Do we need to teach people how to operate in a hybrid environment? I think we all need to define that as an employer for the organisation that we’re in and the industry that we’re in as well. 

[[26.46]]

L: Yeah, I quite agree [with] so much that you’ve touched on there and I was wondering, Bradley, if you would be able to just elaborate on what Adele has mentioned there in terms of how an organisation can measure the results of putting into practice some of those aspects there in terms of wellbeing and training and development, and maybe give us an example of some recent work that you have taken please?

[[27.12]]

B: Sure, I think if we go back to what Adele was saying about the development has to be aligned to the individual and the direction of the business. That can be done really very successfully and if we look at how things are measured, typically, you might see something like the standard engagement survey and people get the opportunity to score how they feel about the culture, or the management, or various aspects of being at work. And if you remember what I said earlier, that’s not always acted on as well as it could be and if I’m really honest it quite often isn’t, and that’s not to be critical of any organisation but that’s just what we’re seeing on the ground.

So, Match Fit have been working with MoJ (Ministry of Justice) and what we’ve looked to do with them is to look at doing something a bit different in terms of measurements, so looking from the individual all the way through to what the organisational objectives are and some of those organisational objectives are being driven by some of those individuals, so it really is looking at the individual, the team and the wider organisation. Clearly there needs to be a framework in place, we can’t just have individuals going off in any direction at all, but actually when that framework’s in place, how we operate within that framework can be very different and it’s a really inclusive approach. So, the MoJ have engaged with us to measure their wellbeing and development programme, which is called ‘Decline’ which is part of Match Fit’s proposition and we measure that at four levels. So, the first level is are people valuing the process, when we talk about upskilling, training or development. Are people valuing that because if they’re not, they’re not going to engage, are they getting something from that? And then the next level is are they actually learning something new, something they can put into practice and something that they can then do differently because they’ve been learning something that they wouldn’t otherwise have learnt. So, that’s the first two levels. But then the third level is are they putting that learning into practice? Are they now actually doing things differently in a way that they weren’t doing before, and what impact is that having is the fourth level. You know, what has changed as a consequence of that new behaviour? So if I give you a really clear example of how that looks… It may well be that a manager comes onto a programme where we would work with that manager individually, so one-to-one, but also with that manager in terms of their peers and sometimes we’re working across different levels of management simultaneously, but what we might do is that that manager might have an insight where they realise that because they’re not having those difficult conversations early enough, things are escalating within the team and they’re getting dynamics emerge that they would really rather weren’t there and they’re leading to grievances or conflict, all those things. And so the manager then puts that into place, the manager then starts to have those conversations earlier with the team and as a result of that things start to change in terms of the amount of grievances that might be taking place at any one time within the organization.And what we’ve seen, in terms of HR language, what we’ve seen in doing that with the MoJ is that with the establishments that we’ve worked at and organisations we’ve worked at, right across the civil service now, we’ve seen the amount of time that it takes to deal with an HR case, so something like a disciplinary, we’ve seen that halved and we’ve also seen the number of cases that arise and come to HR’s attention halved. And they’re hard measures so we’ve been able to really utilise hard and soft measures, so yes people are more motivated and engaged and yes they feel like they’re learning some stuff but actually the hard measures show the actual return on investment and that’s something that’s really, really important when you’re talking about public money and funding from central government. We’ve been nominated for five awards on that, and I say that for the purpose of making the point that the measurement in the way that we’re conducting that is actually quite unique, and we’re really seeing some hard-hitting changes in terms of cultural shift, leadership styles and the way that the business is communicated.

So, for me, I guess a really good example that we need to measure things at an individual level as well as a team and organisational level and we need to use hard and soft measurements. And the last thing I’ll say is that I’ve been in development one way or another either as a psychotherapist or a trainer. I’ve been in L&D and OD for nearly 30 years, and I feel old saying that! But I’ve been in for that long and we’ve never really seen a programme that’s measured in that way before, so it’s quite a unique and innovative way and it seems to be something different that when we work with an organisation they’re very open to committing with us to making sure that those measurements are in place so that you can measure the success. So that’s how we’re doing it and it’s been phenomenally successful doing that. So that’s probably… I’ll put a full stop on that because I don’t want to rant.

[[32.46]]

L: No, that’s wonderful, such a well-drawn-out example for us, it was brilliant and I think just for the benefit of listeners as well, MoJ is referring to the UK’s Ministry of Justice. And L&D as most people probably know is learning and development, but I just wanted to clarify. Also, just in terms of the measurement, there’s so many parallels that you can draw between the example you’ve just illustrated for us and healthcare in terms of taking that preventative approach and looking at what keeps people well rather than just dealing with the grievances, dealing with the fallout of what happens when people actually become sick and the cost implication for that. So there are a number of parallels there that can be drawn. And I actually wanted you to cast your mind into the future as much as you can and just kind of think about in the next 6-12 months, in terms of keeping people well, employee wellbeing and talent attraction, where do you see the top priorities for organisations being? And then also what conversations would you like us to be having in, say, five years’ time, Bradley please?

[[34.00]]

B: Yeah, I think I could honestly come back to a lot of what Adele’s said really, you know in terms of moving forward it’s going to be more about the Great Resignation as you mentioned earlier, Lorien. It’s going to be more about putting people first and I do accept that some environments will mean that we need to be managed or led differently, we might need to be target-focused or time-bound and all those nasties, but actually putting people first is something that’s coming through loud and clear in all of the work that we’re doing and actually in June’s  HR magazine, there was an article that talked about more than half, so 58% of employees, said that they would consider leaving their job if the company leaders didn’t show empathy towards them in terms of their needs and what they’re looking for. And more than 1 in 4, so 27%, have already considered handing in their notice for that reason. So people really are voting with their feet, as I said right at the beginning, and that’s something to think about in terms of attrition and retention and the culture we’re trying to build so putting people first I think is going to be really critical. So if you look at it this way, over half, so 51% of workers, said their leadership teams are now prioritising people and their wellbeing over productivity and that’s interesting. That’s an interesting statistic and for me it goes back to what I was saying that if we’re looking after people, the byproduct of doing that is productivity because we’re engaged, we’re enthused, we’re motivated and committed and all of those really powerful things that light our fire versus being disengaged, bored and not wanting to be there. So productivity is often a by-product of how we’re feeling and how we’re treated at work, so you know, you also asked what conversation I’d like to be having in five years? Well, the conversation I would like to be having in five years is about how organisations used these unprecedented times of COVID and the existential crisis that we’ve all gone through to really put people at the front and in the heart of everything that they do and I really cross my fingers that we’ll be able to have that conversation and look forward to having that, so let’s see what does happen in five years.

[[36.19]]

L: Absolutely. And I really hope that the conversation that we’ve had today as well has been able to light a fire, as you said Bradley, in terms of the opportunity that’s in front of people today. But I will bring our conversation to a close and just say thank you so much for all of your input, insight and letting us benefit from your experience and expertise. So thank you Adele. Thank you Bradley.

A: Thank you. 

B: Thank you both. Great to speak with you.

[[36.47]]

We hope you’ve enjoyed this two-part discussion on the War for Talent. The consensus seems to be that as an organisation you need to keep communicating, keep listening to your people, being agile, focusing on wellbeing, purpose, diversity and inclusion.

You can listen to more episodes of the Fit for Duty podcast series on your preferred podcast platform - and don’t forget to subscribe. 

For those who don’t know us, Aetna International is a global health and wellness benefits provider but we’re more than just an insurance safety net. Our skill lies in having the tools, services and resources that really drive healthcare costs down and people’s health and wellbeing up and that’s something that’s important to our clients and our self-funded members alike and that’s why we currently serve almost 900K people around the world. Ultimately, we believe that when people thrive, their work and personal endeavors thrive too. For more informat